View topic - Dick Lebeau is the most overrated Defensive Coordinator ever

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Expose on Dick Lebeau's defenses over the journey...Overrated

Dick Lebeau is the most overrated Defensive Coordinator ever in the NFL.
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The more things change, the more things stay the same?

First post here, is it time to change scheme on “D” and play exclusively a Press-man approach to Wide receivers we face and attack the opposition with a 43 front? Lebeaus’ Blitz zone cover 3 schemes have been worked out and as most teams are at least a 50/50 pass to run ratio, this bend but don’t break defence of Lebeau’s is clearly not going to work against elite pass orientated attacks, especially with his 10 yard cushion!

I think the time has come to “start over” on D and play the 43 Steel Curtain defence. Getting pressure with your front 4 is key to this, we do not have the personnel to do it now, yet can you forsake 2 more years of Ben suffering to reach this goal?



? Tuitt Heyward Worilds

RDE NT UT ? LDE



rolb mlb lolb

shazier timmons ?


or if the ps’s and the posters on this site suggest the 34 d (and all the variants nickel, dime e.t.c.) is still the way to go... surely playing press-man or bump and run will give “time” for these average olb’s we have to maybe, just maybe get there.

coverage and pass-rush are related: press the wr’s and with that extra fraction of a second you may see worilds and jones be able to do something on the edges.

nothing worse as a wide-receiver or qb that your safety blankets are being man-handled outside and in, it changes timing patterns and all the cute patterns marcia and choker love to run.

the two players who could have assisted the cause to the aforementioned changes would have been aaron donald and dennard.

the cupboard is not bare, yet can we afford to not play a style that will win playoff games? Lebeau and Tomlin must evolve with the game and insist that the PS’s are going to at least jam the bejesus out of the opposing WR’s we come up against! It just may help the pass-rush.

But no pass rush is going to get sacks when the opposing QB gets rid of the ball in less than 2 seconds. Unless you play press coverage and force him to hold it a second longer.




Whose idea / scheme are these 10 yard cushions? This is one of the main problems with this defence. Remember against the cheats in 2010 – press coverage; even Ernie Adams couldn’t handle it.

Just press the bejesus out of the eligible receivers from the opposition, smack em within 5 yards, it will do wonders for our inept corner and outside linebacker play.

If Tomlin does not change the psyche of our corners to press / man up he is gone this year.

How did Belicheat defeat Montana in play-off games? He got his CB’s and backers to jam every eligible receiver and with no one open knocked Montana out of 2 or 3 playoff games. No QB is any good on his arse and even better riding the curb! Yes times have changed since 1990’s, but nothing is said about not being able to disrupt the timing a wide-out has with their QB in the first 5 YARDS OF A ROUTE.

A Tomlin stated in May 2014

“Rush and coverage work together and it has since the beginning of time, and will continue. You have to apply pressure to the quarterback it doesn’t matter how many people you do it with. You better use as many as required for consistent pressure to ensure that the ball comes out in a timely manner because when it doesn’t it means points and yards for the offense, and that’s just the reality of football at any level with the passing game as an integral part of it.” You could send all 11 Mike; if the CB’s are 10 yards off, there are holes everywhere.

As Lebeau once said: “If you try and defend everything you defend nothing.”

You must agree that Lebeau has been somewhat lucky in his championships here in Pittsburgh? Beating a Seahawks team who put up 10 points (Despite some eschew refs calls) and needed a Roethlisberger to Holmes drive to survive the biggest choke ever in any Super-bowl ever. Remember Montana’s 92 yd drive vs. the Bengals, he needed it in reverse to escape that ‘criticism once more,’ in Big Ben’s second SB victory.


Unflattering prognosis:

Finish 8-8 in 2014 and both Tomlin and Lebeau will be exited as they should if this is their 3rd season in a row at .500 and below. If they play more press-man and give our D’line (No titty / patty cake) and OLB’s a chance at rushing the passer in more than 3 seconds we may sneak a playoff/ wildcard berth.
Lebeau’s career is littered with second half fadeouts that are truly remarkable. The Cardinals Steelers Superbowl will be remembered as the night Roethlisberger saved Lebeau’s ass. Lebeau was completely bamboozled after Whisenhunt finally spread out Lebeau’s defence after having nothing to lose and running out of time. All week Haley told Whiz to spread Lebeau’s D out; Whiz didn’t listen until it was too late. Lebeau gave up a 14 point lead in milliseconds in a fairly low scoring game up until that point. It was BB who stormed down the field and hit Holmes to stop the early signs of Alzheimer’s disease in Lebeau.

The call R.E. Harrison to zone-blitz hook zone was not the call of Lebeau; Harrison ad-libbed this all the way. THIS IS WHAT WON US THE GAME.

In regards of the safety call – that was a move that gave us 50 yards of field position for the cost of 2 points in the last quarter of a SB – I take that. Despite the field position being completely turned in his favour his scheme allows a simple slant to go 70 yds and lose the lead.

Joe Montana’s 49’s against the Bengals in the Superbowl were sloppy for most of the day, much of that I will give to Lebeau. Adding to this was his Zone-blitz philosophy which was extremely new to the NFL as a whole. With the game well in hand he allowed Montana to stroll down the field all 90 yards of it to sink his Bengals. In reverse to what BB did to help Lebeau – Lebeau could not stop an elite Offense when he needed to. WHO NEEDED JOHN CANDY? Even allowing for a Montana led FG would have forced a SB extra time period, just like Clancy Prendergast he loses in the final seconds of a SB.

The Packers SB – was simply awful, from fumbles and picks by our offense. Aaron Rodgers owned Lebeau on this day – from 3 or 5 step drops he continued to frustrate the Steelers Defensive coordinator. Rodgers went something like 25 of 35 for 320 yds and I remember at least 8 drops, he was almost majestic against a so called demy-god! BB pulled us to within 28-25 midway through the fourth quarter with a touchdown pass and a nifty two-point conversion. This was the game on the line – a three and out or a stop in any fashion could give the Steelers one last hope! The Packers answer with a time consuming field goal. When you need a stop Lebeau is not your man in a big game – against similar elite competition.

This has been proven time and time again. In at-least three goes at a SB, Lebeau has lost the lead in the SB twice in the final minutes, in the other could not deny Rodgers a devastating time consuming FG. Fool me once – Shame on me, Fool me twice shame on you, Fool me thrice shame on Lebeau.

Rank Team Game-winning drives since 2008-09
Pittsburgh Steelers 29
2T Washington Redskins 26
2T Green Bay Packers 20
4 Kansas City Chiefs 19
5T Baltimore Ravens 18
5T Miami Dolphins 18
32 New York Giants 9 (Note: fewest in NFL)
Twenty nine is too high for a defense that allows the league's fewest points and yards, but none of that has mattered when it comes to crunch time.
Since 2007, the Steelers' defense has faced a total of 125 drives in the fourth quarter and overtime when tied or leading by 1-8 points. They have allowed 22 touchdowns and 25 field goals (231 points). It works out to 1.85 points per drive, which would have ranked 21st in the league in 2011, a below-average defense. Fifteen of the touchdown drives have been at least 70 yards in length, and nine were more than 80 yards.
Pittsburgh has allowed 20 game-winning drives, 12 game-tying drives, and 10 go-ahead drives which came during games where the offense would regain the lead for a win. They also allowed five field goals when leading by 5-7 points. That means 78 "stops", though some of those drives were in the final seconds when the opponent had no realistic opportunity.
The scariest parts are the context for how some of these drives happened, and to think how big that number would be if the offense did not bail out the defense. Even Curtis Painter led an 80-yard game-tying touchdown drive last season in Indianapolis against LeBeau's defense before a Roethlisberger game-winning drive.
If the Redskins had better quarterback play, they would have been able to turn more of those 24 losses into wins. Since 2007, Washington quarterbacks have 12 game-winning drives. The Steelers have 17, with Ben Roethlisberger engineering 16 of them.
But even Roethlisberger cannot answer if he does not have enough time left.
The average game-winning drive (in regulation) allowed by the Steelers has come with 3:04 left in the fourth quarter, which is the fifth-smallest amount of time for any team. The less time, the harder it is to answer. The Patriots have the worst average time to answer (just 1:25 left). The Jets have had 7:01 left (the most time), so shame on their offense.
This table looks at how much time was left in the game when the Steelers allowed the points on their late game-winning drives. In parenthesis is the league rank for that category, and the Steelers rank as the worst in everything except for overtime drives, where they are only one behind Green Bay and Miami.
Last 2:00 Last 1:00 Last 0:40 Last 0:15 OT Drives Last 0:40 + OT
10 (1st) 9 (1st) 9 (1st) 7 (1st) 4 (T-3rd) 13 (1st)
Not only is allowing 10 game-winning drives in the final two minutes the worst in the league, but the Steelers have somehow surrendered the game-losing points a league-worst nine times in the last 40 seconds of the game (no other team has more than six). Maybe the only thing worse than that are the seven times in which they have allowed the winning points in the final 0:15.
You just leave your offense no real time to answer in that situation, and nearly half the losses have happened that way.
The context behind some of the losses is both jarring and alarming, and things only seem to be getting worse.
• 12/6/2009: Oakland's Bruce Gradkowski became the first QB in NFL history to throw three go-ahead touchdown passes in the fourth quarter, upsetting Pittsburgh 27-24. The third completed an 88-yard drive with 0:09 left.
• 2011 AFC Wild Card: In the first game under new overtime rules, Tim Tebow threw an 80-yard game-winning touchdown pass to Demaryius Thomas on the first play. It is the longest game-winning touchdown pass in NFL postseason history.
• The second largest blown fourth-quarter lead in a Super Bowl belongs to Dick LeBeau's 2008 Steelers (13 points vs. Arizona). Kurt Warner passed for 224 yards in the fourth quarter alone.
• Since 2009, the Steelers have allowed four game-winning touchdowns in the last 0:32 of the fourth quarter. From 1990-2008, the Steelers had allowed only two game-winning touchdowns in the last 60 seconds of the fourth quarter (both vs. Cincinnati).
• Since October 2011, the Steelers have allowed four game-winning touchdown drives of 80 or more yards. That matches the total they allowed from 1990-2010 (21 seasons).
• 9/23/2012: Oakland had lost 48 consecutive games when trailing by at least 10 points to start the fourth quarter. They overcame a 31-21 deficit for a 34-31 win in Week 3.
• In Roethlisberger's 21 fourth-quarter comeback wins, the Steelers have led after three quarters just as often as they trailed (10 times each plus one tie).
What has caused so many of these losses? Sure, there has been some bad luck. Keenan Lewis dropped an interception in Tennessee last week that may have turned the game. Joe Burnettt dropped a game-ending interception in that 2009 Oakland game. The league admitted to missing a holding call on Jacksonville's big 4th-and-2 run by David Garrard in the 2007 AFC Wild Card game.
But it works both ways, and for other teams too. In 2010, Buffalo's Stevie Johnson dropped the game-winning touchdown in overtime. He was wide open, so LeBeau barely escaped that loss. He was not so lucky last season when Torrey Smith caught the game-winning touchdown with 0:08 left after dropping one, capping off Joe Flacco's 92-yard drive to take control of the AFC North.

Trends go back to LeBeau's days in Cincinnati
As Cincinnati's defensive coordinator from 1984-1991, the Bengals allowed a league-worst 27 game-winning drives (tied with Cleveland and Minnesota). Included are a few famous ones against Joe Montana and the San Francisco 49ers.
On September 20, 1987, the Bengals led 26-20, but just turned the ball over on downs at their own 25. With only two seconds left on the clock, Montana had one shot, and somehow Jerry Rice was left one-on-one for the game-winning touchdown against LeBeau's defense.
That is the shortest one-minute drill since 1981, and perhaps in NFL history. When else has a team taken over with two seconds left, needing a touchdown, and won the game?
The next year the teams would meet in Super Bowl XXIII, and Montana led the first ever classic game-winning drive late in the big game. He completed 8-of-9 passes for 97 yards and the touchdown to John Taylor with 0:34 left. It was flawless, and LeBeau could only watch it happen to his defense.
LeBeau's defense not elite versus the elites
Great quarterbacks have very few problems playing LeBeau's defense. Here are the numbers Super Bowl-winning quarterbacks have had against him in Pittsburgh since 2004.
QB Games (Record) Comp. Pct. YPA TD INT Passer Rating
Kurt Warner 2 (1-1) 70.3% 7.95 4 1 108.1
Aaron Rodgers 2 (1-1) 57.5% 7.90 6 0 105.9
Tom Brady 6 (4-2) 68.1% 7.85 13 3 105.0
Peyton Manning 4 (3-1) 59.7% 7.97 8 1 102.5
Eli Manning 2 (1-1) 63.6% 6.93 3 1 94.6
Drew Brees 3 (1-2) 67.5% 7.32 4 2 92.8
Brett Favre 2 (0-2) 62.4% 6.45 0 2 71.1
Total 21 (11-10) 64.7% 7.58 38 10 98.5
Only Favre struggled, and while the record is close to .500, some of the wins have only been possible because LeBeau has a quarterback of this caliber on his side.
Roethlisberger saved the 2008 Steelers from the all-time Super Bowl choke with his epic drive to beat Arizona on the Santonio Holmes' touchdown. He did the same a year later to beat Rodgers and Green Bay on the final play of the game after LeBeau's defense blew another double-digit lead in the fourth quarter.
All three of Roethlisberger's wins over Eli Manning and Drew Brees saw him lead a game-winning drive (two were comebacks).
The numbers would be even worse for LeBeau if you included how the quarterbacks fared against him when he coached as an assistant in Pittsburgh (1992-1996), Cincinnati (1997-2002) and Buffalo (2003).
Including those games, these seven quarterbacks have the following lofty numbers combined: 21-11 (.656), 738 of 1,067 (69.2 percent) for 8,401 yards, 7.87 YPA, 59 TD, 17 INT, and a 104.3 passer rating.
Peyton Manning is 7-1 against LeBeau, and the only loss was in the 2005 AFC Divisional playoff game. Even in that game Manning trailed 21-3 in the fourth quarter and almost won the game in the final minute with another record comeback. Jerome Bettis helped with a fumble, but Roethlisberger made the tackle and the only thing preventing overtime was a missed field goal by Mike Vanderjagt.
As defensive coordinator in Cincinnati (1984-1991), it was more of the same when LeBeau went up against the game's best quarterbacks. Joe Montana (4-0), Dan Marino (3-0) and John Elway (3-0) combined for a 10-0 record with 17 touchdowns, seven interceptions and a 95.7 passer rating.
This does not really jive with the New York Giants for example, who are like the opposite version of LeBeau's Steelers.
Winners of two recent Super Bowls, we now know they have allowed the fewest game-winning drives (9) in the league since 2007, and they also have been outstanding in the postseason against amazing competition on the road.
In each of the 11 playoff games in the Tom Coughlin era, the Giants have never allowed more than 23 points. They have held three of the 10 highest scoring teams in NFL history to 20 or fewer points, including 14 points to the undefeated 2007 Patriots and 20 points to the No. 2 scoring team in history, the 2011 Green Bay Packers.
Whereas LeBeau's defense made Aaron Rodgers look unstoppable in Super Bowl XLV, the Giants went into Lambeau last year and dominated the Green Bay offense. Do not even get me started on how much more success the Giants have had against Tom Brady.
Does New York ever have great defensive stats in the regular season? No, but they usually show up big late in games, in the playoffs, and against some of the best offenses ever. That formula is proven to win championships too.
Fair or not, LeBeau's championship runs will not be remembered for shutting down elite offenses, but instead will be remembered for Carson Palmer's torn ACL after one pass, Roethlisberger's tackle of Nick Harper after Jerome Bettis' fumble, the officiating against Seattle in Super Bowl XL, Troy Polamalu's pick six of a rookie Joe Flacco, and Roethlisberger to Holmes on the last drive.
How do you want your defense to be remembered? Great stats or great moments?
LeBeau's legacy
Dick LeBeau's legacy is secured because of how hard it is to rewrite a narrative, especially for someone with over 50 years of experience in football.
He seems like a great guy who obviously has found a fountain of youth somewhere, and his players love him like a father. There's no denying anything about his character.
Why is that? Perhaps it is because trailing teams and teams with great quarterbacks will throw the football, and LeBeau's Pittsburgh defense was built to stop the run, which is less significant in today's game.
Without a ton of talent at cornerback, and a stubbornness to continue playing with such large cushions - or to play no real pass defense at all against Tim Tebow in the playoffs - a quarterback can easily get into a rhythm and pick this defense apart as long as the protection is picking up the blitzes, which are no longer very innovative in 2014.
After writing this the Steelers will probably intercept Andy Dalton three times in the fourth quarter on Sunday, but that's only going to be one game. These defensive lapses go back decades for LeBeau.
So the next time you see the Steelers helplessly sending blitzes to no avail as a team marches down the field in the final minute to beat them, just remember that this happens frequently to LeBeau's defenses.
Legend or not, the defensive letdowns are just as much a part of his career as the successes.

Therefore, Dick Lebeau is the most overrated Defensive Coordinator ever in the NFL.

Thanks for reading!

[SoCal Stiller Profile]

Welcome to the board press. That was a very good read.

I think you will be Mill's best friend once he reads it.

[press Profile]

Welcome to the board press. That was a very good read.

I think you will be Mill's best friend once he reads it.

Thanks, So Cal... you seem a good guy.

Good luck to you!

[thesteelhammer Profile]

I think LeBeau's D works when you have top CB's that you can leave on islands out there, but with the bums we've had lately it's a recipe for toast.
It also requires a large run stuffing NT that demands double teams and frees up the ILBs. We haven't had that in Pittsburgh since Casey went down hill.