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Would you trade Ben for draft picks ?

Postby Ohio » Sat Sep 21, 2013 3:36 pm

Let's say the Browns give us a first round pick. Do you take it ?

I mean the guy best days are behind him. The team will need at least a couple of years ( hoping we draft the right personnel ).

I would be all for it.

What do you think ?

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Re: Would you trade Ben for draft picks ?

Postby Crucible-steel-kid » Sat Sep 21, 2013 8:21 pm

This is so stupid that I hope that this post gets removed, moved or eliminated.

:sushootem:

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Re: Would you trade Ben for draft picks ?

Postby Ohio » Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:51 am

Crucible-steel-kid wrote:This is so stupid that I hope that this post gets removed, moved or eliminated.

:sushootem:


Why is stupid? Because you believe that we still have a chance ? It's your point of view.

My point of view is that we will NOT win any Superbowl with THIS BEN. He is on the downhill. For that matter I am really curious to see how Gradkowski will play in his place. And be sure, he will play for Ben. I expect him to be hurt in maximum 10 weeks.

The team has holes all over the place. And where we do not have holes NOW we will in two years time. So we are at minimum 3 years from contending. Saying that we draft perfectly in those three years. And then LeBeau will be out... So you have do adapt to a new DC...I'll tell you... The only thing stupid here is your comment...

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Re: Would you trade Ben for draft picks ?

Postby ballhair » Sun Sep 22, 2013 7:03 am

Ohio wrote:Let's say the Browns give us a first round pick. Do you take it ?

I mean the guy best days are behind him. The team will need at least a couple of years ( hoping we draft the right personnel ).

I would be all for it.

What do you think ?


If there was another Luck coming out and we were sure we could get him, I would trade Ben in a second. The last three years Ben has been going downhill. His best days are behind him. Its obvious at least to me, that he is not hungry any more. Any game now I'm waiting for him to hold on to the ball too long , while having plenty of time to throw it away, and get body slammed, then miss some games. His usual mo. My favorite was that game in Cleveland a couple years ago, remember he rolled out to his left , about 15 yards behind the line of scrimmage , and kept running towards the sideline. Of course our receivers couldn't get open. Anyway, and here is my favorite part, right before the out of bounds line he stops and lets a Browns lineman grab him and body slam him to the ground instead of just throwing the ball away. He misses, I think four games. Our season is over. When he comes back from the injury he is ineffective, like he will be against the Bears tonight. Now the Ben apologist out there will say that is just Ben extending the play trying to make something happen. I say that is an asshole trying to get hurt. Just my 2 cents. Don't mean to offend anyone!

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Re: Would you trade Ben for draft picks ?

Postby Ohio » Sun Sep 22, 2013 11:30 am

ballhair wrote:If there was another Luck coming out and we were sure we could get him, I would trade Ben in a second. The last three years Ben has been going downhill. His best days are behind him. Its obvious at least to me, that he is not hungry any more. Any game now I'm waiting for him to hold on to the ball too long , while having plenty of time to throw it away, and get body slammed, then miss some games. His usual mo. My favorite was that game in Cleveland a couple years ago, remember he rolled out to his left , about 15 yards behind the line of scrimmage , and kept running towards the sideline. Of course our receivers couldn't get open. Anyway, and here is my favorite part, right before the out of bounds line he stops and lets a Browns lineman grab him and body slam him to the ground instead of just throwing the ball away. He misses, I think four games. Our season is over. When he comes back from the injury he is ineffective, like he will be against the Bears tonight. Now the Ben apologist out there will say that is just Ben extending the play trying to make something happen. I say that is an asshole trying to get hurt. Just my 2 cents. Don't mean to offend anyone!


Such a sure thing like a Luck or a Manning ( I still remember a friend of mine in high school going insane for him at Tennessee)... I would pick a Bridgewater or a Mariota. Not a Manziel that reminds me not Wilson ( like I hear people say ) but Ben himself with those crazy scrambles...

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Re: Would you trade Ben for draft picks ?

Postby Crucible-steel-kid » Sun Sep 22, 2013 7:54 pm

Ohio wrote:
:sushootem:


Ohio wrote:
Crucible-steel-kid wrote:This is so stupid that I hope that this post gets removed, moved or eliminated.

:sushootem:


Why is stupid? Because you believe that we still have a chance ? It's your point of view.

My point of view is that we will NOT win any Superbowl with THIS BEN. He is on the downhill. For that matter I am really curious to see how Gradkowski will play in his place. And be sure, he will play for Ben. I expect him to be hurt in maximum 10 weeks.

The team has holes all over the place. And where we do not have holes NOW we will in two years time. So we are at minimum 3 years from contending. Saying that we draft perfectly in those three years. And then LeBeau will be out... So you have do adapt to a new DC...I'll tell you... The only thing stupid here is your comment...


Okay. I will try and explain this the best way I can so that you will get it. It is not B.R. 7's fault that the front office is not drafting peeps that will play the game at a high level of intensity. His play is a symptom of the problem, but is not the problem itself. The real problem is that we have peeps running this team that are totally unqualified for the job. If you have been reading this site for any length of time, and not just typing out what your opinions are, you will realize that.

LINK:
http://stillers.com/Article/View/11ea1c ... 417282fef1

Saying that B.R. 7 has "lost his hunger" is absolute B.S. I would - you would - hell anybody would just try and endure through lousy personnel picks until the front office got lucky with the current management climate to draft some good guys in there. Harking back to the Chuck Noll days, even he screwed up by pointing out that Johnny Unitas was found to be "lacking". Even if we could turn back the hands of time and get a younger Joe Montana and Jerry Rice combination on our squad, that still would not be enough. We need running backs, blockers, dlb's, and effective corners.

Trying to place the blame on B.R. 7 does not address the real problem that is holding back this team. That is why this post is total B.S. nonsense.
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Re: Would you trade Ben for draft picks ?

Postby isfry » Sun Sep 22, 2013 8:01 pm

Not to mention this entire idea presupposes that we would actually do something good with draft picks...

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Re: Would you trade Ben for draft picks ?

Postby thesteelhammer » Sun Sep 22, 2013 8:55 pm

anyone want to change their answer after that fumble.

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Re: Would you trade Ben for draft picks ?

Postby thesteelhammer » Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:31 pm

how about after the pick 6 which was thrown into double coverage?

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Re: Would you trade Ben for draft picks ?

Postby Crucible-steel-kid » Mon Sep 23, 2013 12:57 am

thesteelhammer wrote:how about after the pick 6 which was thrown into double coverage?


No, I don't. Even Bradshaw had periods like today's poor performance but they are overshadowed in retrospect. During the Superbowls the pundits still didn't give the Steelers any respect and we were not the favorites to win. If anything BR7 is trying to make something happen ala polishing a turd. This teams performance is still a symptom of poor management and that's not debatable.

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Re: Would you trade Ben for draft picks ?

Postby ballhair » Mon Sep 23, 2013 6:31 am

Crucible, has the whole front office changed personal in the last three to four years? A few years ago everyone,the media, were saying what a great front office the Steelers had and is one of the best run organizations in football. Now your saying the front office is terrible. What happen all of a sudden? I agree our recent draft picks have been shit. Putting 5'5" receivers on the field don't help either. As far as Ben is concerned, holding on to the ball too long resulting in fumbles or rushed passes turning into interceptions is all on Ben.
When he took us to that first super bowl I was thrilled to death to finally have a elite franchise QB. Now not so much. I don't know if he lost his hunger for the game that is true.
Watching him play lately, he does things that a 10 year "great" QB shouldn't do. Since the SB loss to GB I kept waiting for him to get better and take his game up a notch but it never happened . I'm sure your in pain as much as I am about this team demise. You could be right about everything. When I watch Ben play now its embarrassing considering all the praise he received in the past. Just my two cents.
This whole team stinks now.
Did you see Forte run over Timmons on that fourth and goal from the one?
On Forte 55 yard run did you see Clark miss a tackle near the line scrimmage not to mention a few miss tackles along the way?
Pathetic.

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Re: Would you trade Ben for draft picks ?

Postby LenSherwood » Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:54 am

Trading Ben would be a bold move for sure, but I am not convinced that Colbert/Tomlin and Little Artie the owner would be able to actually use the picks. Ben will allow you to limp along--hell they might go 7-9 this year! Hoorah!! The Steeler organization, probably from Little Artie on down has to be revamped to be able to figure out what to do with that trade. I think the trade would have to be multiple year No 1 picks or a team's entire draft. And you need to be rid of Tomlin and the current coaching staff--a new coach who has a clue as to what he wants to do. That coach has to make personnel decisions too--in fact has to drive them. A GM doesn't put an offense or a defense in place.

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Re: Would you trade Ben for draft picks ?

Postby Crucible-steel-kid » Mon Sep 23, 2013 2:24 pm

ballhair wrote:Crucible, has the whole front office changed personal in the last three to four years? A few years ago everyone,the media, were saying what a great front office the Steelers had and is one of the best run organizations in football. Now your saying the front office is terrible. What happen all of a sudden? I agree our recent draft picks have been shit. Putting 5'5" receivers on the field don't help either. As far as Ben is concerned, holding on to the ball too long resulting in fumbles or rushed passes turning into interceptions is all on Ben.
When he took us to that first super bowl I was thrilled to death to finally have a elite franchise QB. Now not so much. I don't know if he lost his hunger for the game that is true.
Watching him play lately, he does things that a 10 year "great" QB shouldn't do. Since the SB loss to GB I kept waiting for him to get better and take his game up a notch but it never happened . I'm sure your in pain as much as I am about this team demise. You could be right about everything. When I watch Ben play now its embarrassing considering all the praise he received in the past. Just my two cents.
This whole team stinks now.
Did you see Forte run over Timmons on that fourth and goal from the one?
On Forte 55 yard run did you see Clark miss a tackle near the line scrimmage not to mention a few miss tackles along the way?
Pathetic.


The missed tackles and the non existent goal line stand comes from training and practice, practice, practice. Judging by the way these events worked out, this team is rusty and that is the nicest way I can put it. This culture of devil may care has got to change, and someone that will make heads roll if it don't has got to be put into place.

LenSherwood wrote:Trading Ben would be a bold move for sure, but I am not convinced that Colbert/Tomlin and Little Artie the owner would be able to actually use the picks. Ben will allow you to limp along--hell they might go 7-9 this year! Hoorah!! The Steeler organization, probably from Little Artie on down has to be revamped to be able to figure out what to do with that trade. I think the trade would have to be multiple year No 1 picks or a team's entire draft. And you need to be rid of Tomlin and the current coaching staff--a new coach who has a clue as to what he wants to do. That coach has to make personnel decisions too--in fact has to drive them. A GM doesn't put an offense or a defense in place.


This is wishful thinking at best. A team will not want used goods and be willing to trade away picks or any other concessions for BR7 with the anticipation that their chances will improve. I say it's better to deal with the devil you know versus the one that you don't. Get some leadership in there, get BR7 some weapons to stretch out the field, get an offensive line that is not offensive to watch that can't / won't open running lanes, etc etc etc. and you have a Q.B. that can flourish. Otherwise you nix a good Q.B. and the other problems remain the same.

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Re: Would you trade Ben for draft picks ?

Postby LenSherwood » Mon Sep 23, 2013 2:43 pm

Crucible, The Raiders traded away two first round picks for Palmer!! (well one turned out to be a second round pick) Yes it is wishful thinking, but I am agreeing with you--you have to get a lot because Ben will at least keep you marginally competitive. Ohio is pointing out that the Steelers are not just a player or two away from competing. At the current trajectory for the organization, Ben won't be of any value anyway--there are just too many holes to fill beyond his capacity to win on his own. Ohio is making the case for a much bolder move... again I am skeptical as you rightly point out that you are:1) not going to get huge value (unless the Raiders will trade with you) AND 2)the Steeler front office isn't doing a fanstistic job right now with bringing in talent to the organization either through drafts or free agency.

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Re: Would you trade Ben for draft picks ?

Postby Crucible-steel-kid » Mon Sep 23, 2013 5:17 pm

LenSherwood wrote:Crucible, The Raiders traded away two first round picks for Palmer!! (well one turned out to be a second round pick) Yes it is wishful thinking, but I am agreeing with you--you have to get a lot because Ben will at least keep you marginally competitive. Ohio is pointing out that the Steelers are not just a player or two away from competing. At the current trajectory for the organization, Ben won't be of any value anyway--there are just too many holes to fill beyond his capacity to win on his own. Ohio is making the case for a much bolder move... again I am skeptical as you rightly point out that you are:1) not going to get huge value (unless the Raiders will trade with you) AND 2)the Steeler front office isn't doing a fanstistic job right now with bringing in talent to the organization either through drafts or free agency.


I understand your point about the downward spiral that has been the pattern over the last 3 to 4 years, and I agree. In fact, the S.B. against Green Bay we backed into that one and in reality should not have been there. I did not publicly state this, but I sensed that the team felt as though Green Bay was going to roll over just because we were the "feared" Pittsburgh Steelers. The result was a poor outing on the International stage, and not realizing a 7th Championship.

I believe that if we get new leadership in the next month - and I do mean literally in the next month so that the new coach can get acclimated to the team prior to the next draft, BR7's career can be salvaged, along with much of the other talent that deserves to remain as a Steeler. BR7 is a probable future H.O.F.'r, do you really envision him going to another team for draft picks? Especially in light of the assaholic leadership that is in place now? Either way we are totally fucked. We have got to get somebody in there to take care of business.

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Re: Would you trade Ben for draft picks ?

Postby timsim00 » Mon Sep 23, 2013 5:48 pm

As everyone on here can attest to, something is messed up in the Steelers organization, but what exactly is it? Colbert has been the GM since 2000, and during his tenure, the Steelers have made some pretty good draft picks, http://www.databasefootball.com/draft/draftteam.htm?tm=PIP&lg=nfl.

So, what is the problem? When we had Arians...there was too much buddy-buddy with #7. So now what? Is it the leadership chain that has to go? Why? Because we got Pouncey, Gilbert, DeCastro, and NO left takle Mike Adams as of late? Ok, Limus Sweed..yes..give you that one. But honestly, after seeing him at Texas, who would have predicted that bust?

Not sure what it is. Someone set me straight so I can pull my jerseys off the BBQ when I get home!

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Re: Would you trade Ben for draft picks ?

Postby Ohio » Mon Sep 23, 2013 6:41 pm

Crucible-steel-kid wrote:I believe that if we get new leadership in the next month - and I do mean literally in the next month so that the new coach can get acclimated to the team prior to the next draft, BR7's career can be salvaged, along with much of the other talent that deserves to remain as a Steeler. BR7 is a probable future H.O.F.'r, do you really envision him going to another team for [b]draft picks?[/b] Especially in light of the assaholic leadership that is in place now? Either way we are totally fucked. We have got to get somebody in there to take care of business.


That is the point Crucible. I think it depends. It is very hard to see this scenario this year. Because even at a 0-8 it is hard to see Tomlin on the hot seat. If Tomlin was white now he was FIRED. Since he is black Rooney is making a point to his rule. No way he sends him packing this year. Haley was hand picked by Rooney. He will be given plenty time to fail. Different story for Colbert. Honestly our Drafts with him suck. He might have gotten one or two drafts out of ten. The rest is pure sh.t.

But I think also that there is always desperate teams for a QB. Like Len was saying Palmer was traded for two first rounds. Teams like the Vikings, the Browns, the Bucs,the Cardinals, perhaps the Rams, the Jags or the Panthers ( yes Newton is a LOSER ) might want to give a strong signal. You never know what you might get.

You make the point that Ben is a future H.o.F. but you forget that some three years ago we almost sent him away with Holmes. I do not believe that he is such a " franchise " quarterback. Actually I'm not even sold on the fact that the Rooney want to have him remembered in the franchise. I don't know... Just my feeling. I think that two, three good picks and Ben is as good as gone. I also do not think that he has more than three good / normal years left in him. For me the hits have taken their toll. Time will tell. But it would have been hard to see this type of conversation before this season...

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Re: Would you trade Ben for draft picks ?

Postby ballhair » Tue Sep 24, 2013 5:41 am

You are right, there is a lot of things wrong with this team besides BR7. I think that BR7 is the main thing wrong because he is making elite money and not earning it. The QB is the straw that stirs the drink. BR7 has shown instances of brilliance on the field. Just when you think he has finally reached the upper level, he'll stink the place up. No Consistency. A great QB makes the players around him play better. I don't think this is the case with Ben.
Lets face it, Tomlin is a dud but he is going no where. They should let some of us in his press conferences to ask him questions instead of those morely meekly reporters they have in there now who are scared of him and lob him snowball questions.
If BR7 keeps playing like he has been, he'll never see the HOF.
BR7 was better when he was a drunk molesting woman. He must be somewhat of a jackoff however, he disowned his home town and his name is mud there now.
The Steelers and NFL football are the only sports I watch and enjoy anymore. Its going to be a painful fall. :( :(

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Re: Would you trade Ben for draft picks ?

Postby Crucible-steel-kid » Tue Sep 24, 2013 3:31 pm

Ohio wrote:
Crucible-steel-kid wrote:I believe that if we get new leadership in the next month - and I do mean literally in the next month so that the new coach can get acclimated to the team prior to the next draft, BR7's career can be salvaged, along with much of the other talent that deserves to remain as a Steeler. BR7 is a probable future H.O.F.'r, do you really envision him going to another team for [b]draft picks?[/b] Especially in light of the assaholic leadership that is in place now? Either way we are totally fucked. We have got to get somebody in there to take care of business.


That is the point Crucible. I think it depends. It is very hard to see this scenario this year. Because even at a 0-8 it is hard to see Tomlin on the hot seat. If Tomlin was white now he was FIRED. Since he is black Rooney is making a point to his rule. No way he sends him packing this year. Haley was hand picked by Rooney. He will be given plenty time to fail. Different story for Colbert. Honestly our Drafts with him suck. He might have gotten one or two drafts out of ten. The rest is pure sh.t.

But I think also that there is always desperate teams for a QB. Like Len was saying Palmer was traded for two first rounds. Teams like the Vikings, the Browns, the Bucs,the Cardinals, perhaps the Rams, the Jags or the Panthers ( yes Newton is a LOSER ) might want to give a strong signal. You never know what you might get.

You make the point that Ben is a future H.o.F. but you forget that some three years ago we almost sent him away with Holmes. I do not believe that he is such a " franchise " quarterback. Actually I'm not even sold on the fact that the Rooney want to have him remembered in the franchise. I don't know... Just my feeling. I think that two, three good picks and Ben is as good as gone. I also do not think that he has more than three good / normal years left in him. For me the hits have taken their toll. Time will tell. But it would have been hard to see this type of conversation before this season...


I pretty much said all I have to say about it, and you are correct - it is gonna be one hell of a long road ahead before we ever see another championship year again. The chemistry is wrong with this organization, and I do not know what changes need to be made to make it workable. The entire cocktail that Ballhair refers to is a combination of talent, coaching, draft picks and culture within the locker room. Right now we are short in every one of those areas.
Even as Sherwood put it, even if we got a teams entire draft for BR7, that would be pissed away on crap players that will not have instant impact on the team. Either way we are in rebuilding mode and have to suffer through it.

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Re: Would you trade Ben for draft picks ?

Postby PGHeaven » Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:41 pm

BR7 plays a version of backyard football that will end up getting him hurt. He has one of the longest release times in the NFL. Can you imagine what the OL must think on some days? NOT that this bunch is seasoned enough to have that type of wisdom but my point surely is valid. If the Steelers are 3-4 years away from a rebuild where does Ben figure in that?


OK - now how about this. Can Ben be taught to release quicker? To develop that P Manning type instinct that comes from hours of workaholic devotion? Did they not already try working with him on this very skill? If they did, Ben failed that class because he still holds on to the ball longer than it takes some glaciers to melt.

My point is this - Ben's magic was based on that unique sideways glide out of the pocket during which Hines and others knew how to get open. I think that technique is OVER. Without that - its Ben standing there like an Oak tree with LB's draped all over him. How long can that Oak tree last??

Dont worry though. HALEY will be gone before BR7 is..

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