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Big Ben admits his style of play causes high sack totals....

Postby SteelProtection » Thu May 29, 2008 10:55 am

I know some may find this sacrilegious but Big Ben's type of play does cause some of those sacks. It isn't always the pass pro. That isn't a knock on Big Ben. I love his game. I love his gutsiness, but the truth is it leads to sacks and Big Ben even says so.

"I'm still going to get (sacked), because I'm still going to try to scramble and make plays," said Roethlisberger, who became the highest-paid player in Steelers history in March. "You look at all the big plays we've made, and then you take the sacks. You kind of have to live with it."

If Roethlisberger is willing to live with it, so too are the Steelers. After all, he is the one who absorbs the physical punishment, and the trade-off for the 47 sacks he took last season appeared to be well worth it.


http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune ... 69892.html

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Re: Big Ben admits his style of play causes high sack totals....

Postby 955875 » Thu May 29, 2008 11:56 am

While this is true on plays where Ben is trying to make something out of nothing or holds the ball too long waiting for receivers to get open, it has NOTHING to do with the countless plays where the ball is snapped and defenders are in our backfield at the blink of an eye.

So while he may not have been sacked 47 times, he still would be among the most sacked QBs behind our pourous oline.

Remember, a lot of the reason why he has to make something of nothing is becuase the oline gave him no time to begin with.

Ben is just shouldering the blame like a good leader should. He has said many times how "great" he thinks his oline is. We watch the games and know the truth.

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Re: Big Ben admits his style of play causes high sack totals....

Postby thesteelhammer » Thu May 29, 2008 7:22 pm

Sure, Ben's "style" causes some sacks (and some big plays), But so does bad line play, and mediocre talent on the O-line.

What is Ben going to say? His O-line sucks? Yeah right. I'm sure they'd be motivated to block for him then.

Watch the games. Our QB is always under pressure. You hardly ever see a Pocket for our QB to stand in.

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Re: Big Ben admits his style of play causes high sack totals....

Postby SteelProtection » Fri May 30, 2008 10:08 am

thesteelhammer wrote:Sure, Ben's "style" causes some sacks (and some big plays), But so does bad line play, and mediocre talent on the O-line.


It is not a question of whether the line sucks or not. We all agree the line sacks. But Roethlisberger is always going to be a highly sacked QB regardless of the line play if he continues playing the game this way. And that isn't a complaint. I love the way he plays.

thesteelhammer wrote:What is Ben going to say? His O-line sucks? Yeah right. I'm sure they'd be motivated to block for him then.


These weren't comments after a game he was sacked numerous times. These comments were made in May. He wasn't saying this stuff to protect his line and shield them from criticism. It was honest asessment of the way he plays and his comfort with the offense.

thesteelhammer wrote:Watch the games. Our QB is always under pressure. You hardly ever see a Pocket for our QB to stand in.


I'm certain I watch the games just as closely and intently as anyone else here. I watch them, in most cases rewatch them, and usually go back and look at certain plays many more times. As someone who watches the games I know the line doesn't give him a good pocket often enough. By watching the games I've also observed Big Ben rarely throws a ball away to avoid pressure, which by watching many games of other NFL teams I know is something of a common practice among NFL QBs.

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Re: Big Ben admits his style of play causes high sack totals....

Postby carson palmer's knee » Sun Jun 01, 2008 8:57 pm

A bad offensive line can get you hurt.

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Re: Big Ben admits his style of play causes high sack totals....

Postby jason97673 » Sun Jun 01, 2008 9:08 pm

SteelProtection wrote:
I'm certain I watch the games just as closely and intently as anyone else here. I watch them, in most cases rewatch them, and usually go back and look at certain plays many more times. As someone who watches the games I know the line doesn't give him a good pocket often enough. By watching the games I've also observed Big Ben rarely throws a ball away to avoid pressure, which by watching many games of other NFL teams I know is something of a common practice among NFL QBs.


Roethlisberger statistically throws the ball away more than just about any other QB in the NFL. It only appears that he doesnt ever throw it away because he is under pressure every single pass he ever throws.

Comparison of some QBs last year(Throw Aways/Attempts):

Brady - 16/578 - Every 36 passes
Palmer - 8/575 - Every 71 passes
Roethlisberger - 11/404 - Every 36 passes
Rivers - 24/460 - Every 19 passes
Brees - 14/652 - Every 46 passes
Romo - 2/520 - Every 260 passes
Manning - 13/515 - Every 39 passes

Got the numbers from sports illustrated. As you can see, out of the best QBs I looked up, only Rivers throws it away more. As you can see, there isnt a huge disparity in times a QB throws it away. The average QB throws it away maybe once a game to every other game, thats why the "throw the ball away" saying gets quite old because he doesn't need to throw it away more.

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Re: Big Ben admits his style of play causes high sack totals....

Postby SteelProtection » Sun Jun 01, 2008 10:43 pm

jason97673 wrote:
Roethlisberger statistically throws the ball away more than just about any other QB in the NFL. It only appears that he doesnt ever throw it away because he is under pressure every single pass he ever throws.


So, despite being under more pressure you say it doesn't appear he throws the ball away more.
That doesn't make sense. If he is under pressure more (and I certainly agree he is) wouldn't you expect he would have to throw the ball away more?


jason97673 wrote:Comparison of some QBs last year(Throw Aways/Attempts):

Brady - 16/578 - Every 36 passes
Palmer - 8/575 - Every 71 passes
Roethlisberger - 11/404 - Every 36 passes
Rivers - 24/460 - Every 19 passes
Brees - 14/652 - Every 46 passes
Romo - 2/520 - Every 260 passes
Manning - 13/515 - Every 39 passes

Got the numbers from sports illustrated. As you can see, out of the best QBs I looked up, only Rivers throws it away more. As you can see, there isnt a huge disparity in times a QB throws it away. The average QB throws it away maybe once a game to every other game, thats why the "throw the ball away" saying gets quite old because he doesn't need to throw it away more.


I think to a large degree counting throwaways is very subjective much like counting receiver drops. It largely depends on who is doing the counting. With that said I'd like to see the link on this because I've never heard any mention of this stat or this count by SI before. But again, looking at the protection that these QBs get they shouldn't have to throw the ball away as much as Big Ben.

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Re: Big Ben admits his style of play causes high sack totals....

Postby jason97673 » Sun Jun 01, 2008 11:58 pm

SteelProtection wrote:
jason97673 wrote:
Roethlisberger statistically throws the ball away more than just about any other QB in the NFL. It only appears that he doesnt ever throw it away because he is under pressure every single pass he ever throws.


So, despite being under more pressure you say it doesn't appear he throws the ball away more.
That doesn't make sense. If he is under pressure more (and I certainly agree he is) wouldn't you expect he would have to throw the ball away more?


jason97673 wrote:Comparison of some QBs last year(Throw Aways/Attempts):

Brady - 16/578 - Every 36 passes
Palmer - 8/575 - Every 71 passes
Roethlisberger - 11/404 - Every 36 passes
Rivers - 24/460 - Every 19 passes
Brees - 14/652 - Every 46 passes
Romo - 2/520 - Every 260 passes
Manning - 13/515 - Every 39 passes

Got the numbers from sports illustrated. As you can see, out of the best QBs I looked up, only Rivers throws it away more. As you can see, there isnt a huge disparity in times a QB throws it away. The average QB throws it away maybe once a game to every other game, thats why the "throw the ball away" saying gets quite old because he doesn't need to throw it away more.


I think to a large degree counting throwaways is very subjective much like counting receiver drops. It largely depends on who is doing the counting. With that said I'd like to see the link on this because I've never heard any mention of this stat or this count by SI before. But again, looking at the protection that these QBs get they shouldn't have to throw the ball away as much as Big Ben.


I am simply basing his throw aways off how many times he does it compared to other QBs. If Ben would throw the ball say 550 total times, he would probably throw it away maybe 15 times based on his current numbers.

But in the end, based off the numbers I have seen, Ben throws it away more than most QBs. If he would throw it away every time he is under pressure, his throw aways would probably be about tripled if not more, which would ultimately hurt the team, since alot of his big plays come from not throwing it away and going for the big play.

And I got the numbers from SI's passing splits(http://sportsillustrated.com/football/n ... plits.html). However they seem to take them down shortly after the season is over.

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Re: Big Ben admits his style of play causes high sack totals....

Postby ILLSTILL » Mon Jun 02, 2008 10:55 pm

I think a more closely related point is that he doesn't follow the checkdowns very often.

Several times you see the running backs run off of blocks and he doesn't give them the ball.

But then again, in the jagoff playoff game, he threw so many checkdowns in a row that he was intercepted because the defense began to anticipate them. Take that for what you will.

And in addition to all of that, arians doesnt have shit worth shit regarding get the ball off quickly plays, OH except those gawdawful fade routes in the endzone.

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