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Stillers-Bengals Postgame Analysis and Grades

Postby StillMill » Mon Dec 16, 2013 7:44 am

http://stillers.com/Article/View/a3ec41 ... 6be1908ef6 has been posted by Still Mill at Stillers.com.

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Re: Stillers-Bengals Postgame Analysis and Grades

Postby Pommah » Mon Dec 16, 2013 11:39 am

Bengal's boners gave us some points. Botched punt at the 1-yard line gave us a quick 6. Moron who raised his arm up before a 50-yard return. Sloppy punt coverage on AB's 6-point return. They are like the Browns - and us - scads of talent but not enough discipline to win a championship. And I did not like how in the 2nd half three trips to the red zone, settled for 3 field goals. Yes we are up, but where is the go-for-the-jugular attitude? And given's the D's track record of coughing up lots of late 2nd half points you need everything you can get.

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Re: Stillers-Bengals Postgame Analysis and Grades

Postby isfry » Mon Dec 16, 2013 12:10 pm

Good wrap up, Mill. Obviously a bittersweet victory. Nice to piss on the Bengals' picnic but it left me wondering (a la your "where was this intensity fourteen weeks ago?" comment) what could have been. Couldn't help but think how different things could be if we just hadn't lost the Miami game...and the Ravens game...and the Patriots game...and the Raiders game...and the first four of the year...

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Re: Stillers-Bengals Postgame Analysis and Grades

Postby Pommah » Mon Dec 16, 2013 12:45 pm

To me there are acceptable losses, and then there are unacceptable ones. At 16 games the season is too long to maintain top-flight form for enough players, and winning on the road against tough teams is a challenge. When I looked at where this team should have finished at the beginning of the year, I came up with 12-4 based on "acceptable" losses, all on the road, at Cincinnati, Baltimore, New England, and Green Bay - all good teams and tough to beat at home. That makes the unacceptable losses at home of Tennessee, Chicago, Minnesota, Miami, and the road loss at Oakland. No way we should have lost any of those games, all of them are .500 or below, or would be if we had beaten them the way we should have.

Losing to losers in our house. That's the hardest part of this season to take.

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Re: Stillers-Bengals Postgame Analysis and Grades

Postby Matthew1516 » Mon Dec 16, 2013 1:33 pm

We got some easy breaks, for once, and made the most of them. Frankly, we started the season with the same scenario against the Titans, and laid an egg. The losses to the Titans and Dolphins at home were season killers. Losing to the Vikings in London and the Raiders (again) in Oakland were certainly bad losses, but you will get those occasionally, and both games involved situations where we dug an early hole. In the Miami and Tennessee games, we had early breaks and every opportunity to win at home against a marginal team. Bad coaching lost those games. And that's why we're not going to the playoffs.

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Re: Stillers-Bengals Postgame Analysis and Grades

Postby Ohio » Mon Dec 16, 2013 1:36 pm

Pommah wrote:To me there are acceptable losses, and then there are unacceptable ones. At 16 games the season is too long to maintain top-flight form for enough players, and winning on the road against tough teams is a challenge. When I looked at where this team should have finished at the beginning of the year, I came up with 12-4 based on "acceptable" losses, all on the road, at Cincinnati, Baltimore, New England, and Green Bay - all good teams and tough to beat at home. That makes the unacceptable losses at home of Tennessee, Chicago, Minnesota, Miami, and the road loss at Oakland. No way we should have lost any of those games, all of them are .500 or below, or would be if we had beaten them the way we should have.

Losing to losers in our house. That's the hardest part of this season to take.


Pommah I agree 100%. I would add

No Plan B for injuries. Larry Foote goes down ? We are still trying to find out a replacment. No Pouncey ? You need to go sign somebody on the street ( and we were lucky enough to find an adequate guy). Where is the planning ?

People are talking about intensity... For me it is not about intensity as much as mangment.

TIME TO SEE SOME NEW FACES ON THE FIELD

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Re: Stillers-Bengals Postgame Analysis and Grades

Postby Matthew1516 » Mon Dec 16, 2013 2:20 pm

The entire offensive line was a mess coming into the season. And to me the most damnable offense is cutting Dwyer and having Redman as your feature back in the home opener. Your rookie running back has been out all preseason and for the first couple of weeks into the regular season. Dwyer was your leading rusher last year and you gave him virtually all of the work in the preseason. You then cut him and give the job to a journeyman like Redman who was also out for all of the preseason? Madness. Redman didn't even have to play to win the starting job. You do that for Barry Sanders, not Redman. We were clearly not prepared to start the season, and that is due to amateurish coaching and management.

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Re: Stillers-Bengals Postgame Analysis and Grades

Postby 2016SBChamps » Mon Dec 16, 2013 3:53 pm

StillMill wrote:http://stillers.com/Article/View/a3ec4104-c27d-4196-9c68-a56be1908ef6 has been posted by Still Mill at Stillers.com.

I agree with Still Mill for the most part. IMO, Antonio Brown deserves an 'A'. He ran back a punt return for a TD. Brown has been one of the few bright stars of this underachieving team. 66 yards may be nothing to brag about, but Brown made it possible to keep the 'chains' moving on several occasions. I thought the OL did a decent job protecting Ben.

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Re: Stillers-Bengals Postgame Analysis and Grades

Postby 2016SBChamps » Mon Dec 16, 2013 3:56 pm

Matthew1516 wrote:We got some easy breaks, for once, and made the most of them. Frankly, we started the season with the same scenario against the Titans, and laid an egg. The losses to the Titans and Dolphins at home were season killers. Losing to the Vikings in London and the Raiders (again) in Oakland were certainly bad losses, but you will get those occasionally, and both games involved situations where we dug an early hole. In the Miami and Tennessee games, we had early breaks and every opportunity to win at home against a marginal team. Bad coaching lost those games. And that's why we're not going to the playoffs.


Well.., the same coaches took the team to two super bowls and won one of them. We lost the 2nd one because the players did not execute as they were supposed to. The turnovers and the poorly executed 2-minute offense cost us the SB in 2010.

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Re: Stillers-Bengals Postgame Analysis and Grades

Postby 2016SBChamps » Mon Dec 16, 2013 3:58 pm

Matthew1516 wrote:We got some easy breaks, for once, and made the most of them. Frankly, we started the season with the same scenario against the Titans, and laid an egg. The losses to the Titans and Dolphins at home were season killers. Losing to the Vikings in London and the Raiders (again) in Oakland were certainly bad losses, but you will get those occasionally, and both games involved situations where we dug an early hole. In the Miami and Tennessee games, we had early breaks and every opportunity to win at home against a marginal team. Bad coaching lost those games. And that's why we're not going to the playoffs.


Easy breaks?! Hmm.., the easy breaks came about due to the hard work of our players. They played with a great deal of intensity for the 1st time since the game against the Ravens in Burgh.

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Re: Stillers-Bengals Postgame Analysis and Grades

Postby Matthew1516 » Mon Dec 16, 2013 5:15 pm

Ridiculous 2016. Yes, when a punter fumbles a snap on his own 1-yard line, that's a lucky break. When a kick returner accidentally calls a fair catch on a kickoff when he is simply telling his teammates that he is going to catch it, that is a lucky break. It was nice to get that help. We have certainly helped other teams all season. We haven't gotten many breaks like this since the Titans took the opening kickoff of the season back into the end zone and gave us a safety.

As for the 2010-11 Super Bowl, we lucked out that the Packers dropped numerous passes. They were wide open and they just dropped the ball over and over again. Meanwhile, we could have run the ball with ease (as we did to open the 3rd quarter) against a team that was very vulnerable to the run, but the playcalling put us at a disadvantage and played the game on the Packers' pace. That's bad coaching.

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Re: Stillers-Bengals Postgame Analysis and Grades

Postby Ohio » Mon Dec 16, 2013 6:58 pm

I was reading this... http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-foo ... -vertebrae

Mill said : Brownie took a punt to the house, late 1Q. He was aided by Terrance Garvin, who pancaked the punter with a vicious, yet legal, block. “A” for both efforts.

Actually I hope that Garvin get immediately fired and never sees the field again. There was absolutely NO need to hit a PUNTER that way. Absolutely a classless cheap shot.

I wonder what would Mill have taught if the Punter was his son playing junior varsity...

Ok those guys are professional BUT HE BROKE THE GUY VERTEBRAE

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Re: Stillers-Bengals Postgame Analysis and Grades

Postby Matthew1516 » Mon Dec 16, 2013 7:04 pm

It was a great block. This is Steelers football. It's a rough game, Ohio. We like football the way it was meant to be. :suplusone:

:subngtowl:

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Re: Stillers-Bengals Postgame Analysis and Grades

Postby StillDodger » Mon Dec 16, 2013 11:11 pm

For how closely Todd Haley has been looked at regarding his relationship w Ben, in spite of the poor record this season, and in spite of the success of Bruce Arians w Indy and Ariz.... I still say Haley was a huge upgrade at OC...... (Arians will crash down to earth when teams in the NFC West start recognizing Arians' plays and tendencies. Arians has always lived on teams not familiar with his schemes.... Kind of like Belichick in reverse.) Ben's pass protection, even with a patchwork offensive line, was as good as it has been in a LONG time.....

I also believe had we kept Arians as OC, Ben would have likely gotten hurt several more times, and his career might not have nearly as much tread left as he currently has.

With Ben's protection as of late, I also wonder if the Steelers talent evaluators have overrated our original starters...... In retrospect, I think Maurkice Pouncey, in particular, is vastly overrated. The center is the anchor of the offense and the offensive line, and it was always a major question mark when he was snapping the football. The individual talent he was notwithstanding.

And I'm sorry, we're giving Ike too much of a pass with these repeated blown plays at CB..... I'll be glad when he's replaced. Although I'm starting to believe Mill, in regard to Woodley being overrated as well.

This team keeps its star players too long..... Ryan Clark isn't the same, Pola isn't the same, this defense can still be picked apart if the pass rush is kept in check. The biggest concern is when these aging wonders go away, who will pick up the slack.

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Re: Stillers-Bengals Postgame Analysis and Grades

Postby StillDodger » Mon Dec 16, 2013 11:22 pm

Ohio wrote:Actually I hope that Garvin get immediately fired and never sees the field again. There was absolutely NO need to hit a PUNTER that way. Absolutely a classless cheap shot.
When a blocker is looking for blocks downfield, do you think he really pays much attention to the person he might be blocking? "Oh man, that's the punter!! Don't block that guy!!"....

Or in other words, I don't think the blocker realized it was the punter until after the fact.

This is no different from Heinz Ward's busting that Bungles' defender....... It is, sadly, part of the game.....

The only thing I question is whether the equipment has become so protective of players, they feel like they can play human battering ram...... It seems like we have a lot more vicious hits than we ever had, the rule changes notwithstanding.

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Re: Stillers-Bengals Postgame Analysis and Grades

Postby Ohio » Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:42 am

StillDodger wrote:
Ohio wrote:Actually I hope that Garvin get immediately fired and never sees the field again. There was absolutely NO need to hit a PUNTER that way. Absolutely a classless cheap shot.
When a blocker is looking for blocks downfield, do you think he really pays much attention to the person he might be blocking? "Oh man, that's the punter!! Don't block that guy!!"....

Or in other words, I don't think the blocker realized it was the punter until after the fact.


Dodger he realized it. They know, they have assignments and basically, for a pro player, the game "slows down". To respond to Matthew THIS IS NOT STEELERS FOOTBALL

This is the kind of stuff I would expect from a ratbird.

And, honestly, he wouldn't have mattered if it was any other position outside of Kicker and Punter ( this tells you where I was playing in high school...).

Ok... Those guys are like 200 pounds ... But their only strength is in the legs... You can see they do not have much in the upper body.

To me it was a cheap shot. I bet he will be fined from "Adolf" Goodell

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Re: Stillers-Bengals Postgame Analysis and Grades

Postby High5 » Tue Dec 17, 2013 11:18 am

I'm all about smash mouth football, especially against the rival Bungels. But come on boys, that hit on the punter was definitely below the belt. I cannot believe the refs didn't throw a flag. Sure put the pop on him, like you should. Punters and kickers are always getting slammed, but going up high under the facemask is just dirty. If that was our punter taking that shot w/ not even a flag you all would be putting the remote through the tv. Special teams plays are scarey, players are all moving around with alot of speed. Footballs football, keep it physical but their is a fine line between smashmouth and dirty football. Also it is the kickers job to keep his head up, since they know they have bullseye targerts on their chest.

He should get a fine and thats it, play ball . :surockin:

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Re: Stillers-Bengals Postgame Analysis and Grades

Postby Pommah » Tue Dec 17, 2013 2:40 pm

Punter kicked from his own 20. Block occurred right around the 50. He ran ~30 yards down field to take part in the action. He was blocked square in the chest, his head nodding down hard into the blocker's helmet.

The NFL is making it very hard on people. Was he supposed to block him in the legs? Then they would be crying about how his livelihood was being targeted. The man was definitely positioned to make the tackle 30 yards from where the punt occurred, how was the blocker supposed to know it was the punter? If the NFL wants certain people treated with kid gloves, put a different color jersey on them, like what they do with the goalie in soccer, or the QB in practice.

The NFL is not doing this to prevent injuries. There are more torn knees and hurt legs than I have ever seen before. The NFL is doing this to score more points, which appeals to the casual fan. Last weekend, more points were scored than any other previous weekend in history. It all leads to "fantasy points" and more "fans" watching the 30 minutes of football and 150 minutes of commercials.

It used to be receivers were not sent on blind routes "down the middle" because everyone knew they were going to get creamed. Coaches would do it anyway in desperate situations, and receivers would get killed. Quite a few receivers would tiptoe the route (to not get killed). Then the league invents "defenseless receiver" rules, effectively opening up previously closed parts of the field of play, leading to more points. You get little wormy receivers like Welker and Amendola who in past years would have lasted a year or two before the hits incapacitated them.

I appreciate that the rules of football change to accommodate innovations in the game. But these are not innovations that need to be checked, they are blatant rules changes to allow more "big" plays, more points, and more appeal to casual fans. For more money to the owners (of course).

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Re: Stillers-Bengals Postgame Analysis and Grades

Postby PGHeaven » Tue Dec 17, 2013 11:25 pm

That was a tough one to sort out. Here we got a special teams guy all revved up looking to contribute and make the game film. And here we have the kicker who was not looking when he got nailed. Garvin did NOT have to decleat that guy. He could've pushed him and got the same result. But it is what it is - and that is football - so I am not going to condemn him

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Re: Stillers-Bengals Postgame Analysis and Grades

Postby 2016SBChamps » Wed Dec 18, 2013 8:55 am

High5 wrote:I'm all about smash mouth football, especially against the rival Bungels. But come on boys, that hit on the punter was definitely below the belt. I cannot believe the refs didn't throw a flag. Sure put the pop on him, like you should. Punters and kickers are always getting slammed, but going up high under the facemask is just dirty. If that was our punter taking that shot w/ not even a flag you all would be putting the remote through the tv. Special teams plays are scarey, players are all moving around with alot of speed. Footballs football, keep it physical but their is a fine line between smashmouth and dirty football. Also it is the kickers job to keep his head up, since they know they have bullseye targerts on their chest.

He should get a fine and thats it, play ball . :surockin:

This morning I found out from ESPN that the punters are protected by a rule. The rule says that the punters are considered to be 'defenseless' players throughout the down. Nevertheless, there was no need to break the punter's jaw; a simple block or push could have achieved the same result.

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