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Stillers-Dolphs Postgame Analysis and Grades

Postby StillMill » Mon Dec 09, 2013 7:59 am

Stillers-Dolphs Postgame Analysis and Grades has been posted by Still Mill at Stillers.com.

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Re: Stillers-Dolphs Postgame Analysis and Grades

Postby 2016SBChamps » Mon Dec 09, 2013 12:37 pm

I agree with Stiller, this team is in need of a complete overhaul--from management to players. Tomlin may or may not get fired at the end of the season. Based upon the history of this team's ownership, it's likely that he will be back next year. It wold be nice if he resigns though. In fairness to him, he has taken the team to two SBs in 7 years. It too Cowher do the same 15 hears.
The DC and OC are not getting the job done. These guys have to go. The team has not played well consistently.

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Re: Stillers-Dolphs Postgame Analysis and Grades

Postby isfry » Mon Dec 09, 2013 2:26 pm

Still Mill says: "The best thing about this loss is that it pounds the nail into the coffin of foolish belief about being a playoff contender, and it should force the idiot leadership to realize this team needs a massive overhaul, not just the signing of a 3rd string TE or a new punter."

Ha!
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Re: Stillers-Dolphs Postgame Analysis and Grades

Postby Still Peon » Mon Dec 09, 2013 2:53 pm

A more frustrating game to watch, I can't remember. The Stillers failed just enough in all phases to snatch defeat from victory, and unbelievably STILL had the narrowest of chances to win it, only to stupidly trip over their own nuts. I know a lot of people are disagreeing with me on this sentiment, but I think this is THE worst Steeler team that I've had the unfortunate privilege of witnessing. Just a complete lack of cohesion and attention to detail, all while the HC looks like a bonehead, and nobody looks like they practice. Even if their record or stats state the contrary at the end of the season, this has to be the most embarrassing group to ever don a Steeler uniform......Even though I'm still a die-hard fan, I know I'm definitely embarrassed for them.

The next question would be: "Well, smart-guy.....how will we fix this?" And, I would say: "I have no idea......there's just TOO damn many things wrong.....hence the embarrassment." You can try firing the HC, but then you have players in key positions that are too engrained with his mind-set, and you may not see any improvement at all......just ask the Browns. You can fire your coordinators, but then you start from scratch on 2 fronts, and you've scrapped any hopes of a post-season from the get-go. You can sweep out some players, but who? The list of failures and non-performers is really long, and you simply can't replace that many, especially given that we'll be minus 1 draft pick this coming season (thanks Mike). So, all I can say is, we have to stay the course with the personnel we have, and pray that by some miracle we whip back into the shape of old. Personally, I think we're in for a long stretch of frustration, and we may just be at the start of it.

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Re: Stillers-Dolphs Postgame Analysis and Grades

Postby isfry » Mon Dec 09, 2013 3:26 pm

Still Peon wrote: I know a lot of people are disagreeing with me on this sentiment, but I think this is THE worst Steeler team that I've had the unfortunate privilege of witnessing.


I agree, Peon. I posted something like this earlier this year and have struggled to maintain some unrealistic optimism but cannot. This is the worst team I have witnessed. Perhaps it seems even worse than it is because there actually is some talent on the roster and watching a team, as a group, play below its potential and leave plays on the field week in and week out is INFURIATING.

I complained to a buddy of mine recently (after the Raiders game which I had the distinct displeasure of witnessing in person) and he accused me of being spoiled by two rings and another appearance in the last decade. I forget if I found the 80's this frustrating, they were so long ago, but maybe he's got a point. Maybe I just have unrealistic expectations.

I have said time and again, tho, that a big reason I get so bent out of shape about it is because of Ben. Like it or not, team's don't win without a quality, franchise-caliber signal caller and I fear the window is closing on Ben's career. I just feel like each season we let slip away with this kind of dysfunction is one closer to a season without a top tier QB at the helm. You think this year is bad? Imagine where we would be without Ben.

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Re: Stillers-Dolphs Postgame Analysis and Grades

Postby Matthew1516 » Mon Dec 09, 2013 5:45 pm

I am surprised Still did not wreck Polamalu for that horrible tackling effort on the game-winning touchdown. Pola is a veteran. We are winning by 4 points. We just need to keep them out of the end zone to win the game. He has the ballcarrier dead to rights against the sideline. Why are you not putting him on the ground? That is your job as strong safety. I have been a fan of Polamalu, but veterans need to make veteran plays that win games. That was the most embarrassing play of the game.

The talent was worse in the 1980s, but the teams played harder. Noll always seemed to make something out of nothing, which hurt our draft position but at least showed that the franchise still had pride. He took Cliff Stoudt to the playoffs. He got a playoff win out of Bubby Brister. He took Mark Malone to the AFC Championship Game and two wins against Joe Montana. If Noll was coaching this Steelers team with this talent and with a QB as good as Big Ben, we would be 9-4 right now due to the weak schedule.

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Re: Stillers-Dolphs Postgame Analysis and Grades

Postby pinpon » Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:45 pm

These guys are all making their vacation plans and are sending boxes of stuff home. The day the season is over they are off to Cancun or another exotic local.
I haven't seen anything on this thread to disagree with. If it was a sick dog, it would be put down.

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Re: Stillers-Dolphs Postgame Analysis and Grades

Postby LenSherwood » Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:57 pm

Matthew1516 wrote:I am surprised Still did not wreck Polamalu for that horrible tackling effort on the game-winning touchdown. Pola is a veteran. We are winning by 4 points. We just need to keep them out of the end zone to win the game. He has the ballcarrier dead to rights against the sideline. Why are you not putting him on the ground? That is your job as strong safety. I have been a fan of Polamalu, but veterans need to make veteran plays that win games. That was the most embarrassing play of the game.

The talent was worse in the 1980s, but the teams played harder. Noll always seemed to make something out of nothing, which hurt our draft position but at least showed that the franchise still had pride. He took Cliff Stoudt to the playoffs. He got a playoff win out of Bubby Brister. He took Mark Malone to the AFC Championship Game and two wins against Joe Montana. If Noll was coaching this Steelers team with this talent and with a QB as good as Big Ben, we would be 9-4 right now due to the weak schedule.


Good point about Pola... that was a weak ass pussy paw paw attempt at a tackle. You are right... Noll prolonged a lot of agony in the 1980s--he had some excruciatingly bad drafts as the Steelers had lost their touch with the draft.. Gabe Rivera over Dan Marino>>> Are you fuking kidding me? I have thought we are in the 1980s again at this point...except they still have a QB...

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Re: Stillers-Dolphs Postgame Analysis and Grades

Postby LenSherwood » Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:58 pm

So Mill which dead wood gets cleared first... Woodley of course...then Clark... does Pola go too? Ziggy Hood is fairly high up on the salary cap for nothin...

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Re: Stillers-Dolphs Postgame Analysis and Grades

Postby docrobert7 » Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:34 am

I am also very surprised that Troy hasn't gotten burned in the Pittsburgh media for that piss poor excuse for a tackle.

The media regards him and Dick LeBeau as holy, so they don't want to speak badly of them... (I am pretty sure Ron Cooke believes Dick LeBeau is actually Jesus Christ)

Troy was never a true tackler;look back at his highlights and you'll see a majority of his "big hits" from his younger days were head first. He can't tackle with his arms to save his life unless he uses his body to drag someone down. His form tackling is and always was horrid.

I get the whole trying to be healthy bit, but maybe he should start lifting weights over 25 lbs; he can't outrun everyone like he could at 25 so maybe he should think about learning to tackle?

He tries his ass off, but you can see a man that won't admit he can't do what he used to be able to do and it's sad to see it.

It's not the losing that bothers me, but the complete lack of understanding.

In regard to the players: you have to adjust your playing style as you age. Memo to leadership and management: you need refresh your talent every couple of years (Please ask New England for advice) and SUPPORT your star QB. Don't try to save him from himself by bringing in some asshole who he obviously doesn't like and won't let him audible and then have your star QB make you and your management team look like a bunch of assholes.

Last time I checked, Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Tom Brady, Aaron Roger, even fucking Eli Manning and Philip Rivers can AUDIBLE on their own because they are the fucking FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK(s). I know the whole Ben isn't in the top 5 stuff, but he still got you three Super Bowls and won two. Anyone recall how Tommy Maddox did with the same team?

This organization and team has been a valid reflection of our region. We'll just replace our manufacturing with retail and then say we're the "Most Livable City in America", yet we can't even pave half our damn roads and our regional infrastructure has gone to shit.

I remember Chris Collinsworth saying during the Thanksgiving game, "That isn't Steelers football."

No, that's now Steelers football: Chicken shit trick plays, betting on past success, poor leaders, not planning for the future, and thinking you deserve something for nothing because you are the Steelers.

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Re: Stillers-Dolphs Postgame Analysis and Grades

Postby StillDodger » Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:55 am

Every time the Stillers get a new punter, they need a new punter......... :?

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Re: Stillers-Dolphs Postgame Analysis and Grades

Postby StillDodger » Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:01 am

I think the core problem right now with this Steelers franchise is that we now have an owner who is more concerned about who wins political office than who wins football games. :oops:

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Re: Stillers-Dolphs Postgame Analysis and Grades

Postby relictele » Tue Dec 10, 2013 8:44 am

I'm nobody's blind optimist but the Steelers' problems must be viewed in the context of the modern-day NFL as a whole which means it's not as bleak as we might imagine if only because nearly every team has similar issues.

Because there are no more dynasties and/or teams that stick together for more than a few years there are no more rebuilding years, only building years. And each and every year is a building year. Rookies and/or former backups catch fire, injuries wipe out opponents' All-Pros/Pro Bowlers, opponents underachieve and make panic moves, etc. And then there are the players themselves who, despite pleas from everyone from their parents to their friends to their teammates to their agents, pi** their talent up a wall by using street drugs, beating up women, and driving drunk (yes the cops know your car/plates and are sitting outside the bar). Fortunately, the Steelers will jettison even Super Bowl heroes who turn out to be bad actors.

The Steelers do value loyalty and the players know that this franchise may have a lean year or two but are far less likely to wander aimlessly like 90% of the rest of the league which means there is value in hanging around which is why they may not resent a Mike Wallace so much as question his thinking.

That said there is no doubt that wholesale changes on both sides of the ball are necessary and probably inevitable. I don't want to threadjack but talk of getting rid of BR7 lies somewhere between insanity and spite. QBs of his size, strength, intelligence and experience are as rare as hens' teeth, as every stressed-out NFL head coach will attest. We can debate in-game performances and decisions but to pretend that the QB is in the top 10 or even 20 problems regarding this team is to morph into a Jets, Giants, Eagles or Cowboys fan with football knowledge the approximate depth of a shot glass.

What mystifies me about this team and/or front office is the regular, even frequent signings of 'Who's he?' type players, especially on special teams. I see capable, even above-average punters in dozens of college football games every week but the Steelers seem to take perverse delight in obscure signings. Neither of this year's two punters should be anywhere near an NFL field again.

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Re: Stillers-Dolphs Postgame Analysis and Grades

Postby Ohio » Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:02 pm

relictele wrote:The Steelers do value loyalty and the players know that this franchise may have a lean year or two but are far less likely to wander aimlessly like 90% of the rest of the league which means there is value in hanging around which is why they may not resent a Mike Wallace so much as question his thinking.

That said there is no doubt that wholesale changes on both sides of the ball are necessary and probably inevitable. I don't want to threadjack but talk of getting rid of BR7 lies somewhere between insanity and spite. QBs of his size, strength, intelligence and experience are as rare as hens' teeth, as every stressed-out NFL head coach will attest. We can debate in-game performances and decisions but to pretend that the QB is in the top 10 or even 20 problems regarding this team is to morph into a Jets, Giants, Eagles or Cowboys fan with football knowledge the approximate depth of a shot glass.


Relictele I have some problems with what you are saying >

1) It doesnt' matter what it used to be. During Cowher regime we knew we were going to be competitive. I highly doubt that Tomlin can get us out of this. It means that the sooner he goes the better. If the Rooneys stick with him we only will have more problems.

2) Getting rid of Ben is almost necessary. You have to see our salary cap situation. We are in hell. No way we can extend him.

3) This is not our father's NFL. As you might have seen everything draws a flag. Injuries are much more frequent to the new hitting style ( instead of hitting high = concussion/few games, now it is hit low= ACL end of the season. Just like Miller last year or Gronkowski this year).

4) In case you didn't notice you need Offensive Minded Head Coaches like everybody else. Why ? It is a passing league with a tight salary cap. It means:

You have a Chip Kelly, a Chudzinski, a McCarthy , a Trestman : You will not have problems. They know how to develop QBs and know how to playcall. They produced with Nobodys like Foles, Campbell, Flinn, McCown.

You have a Defensive Minded Head Coach ? Useless. What is the point in Having Tomlin when one and I say ONE defensive injury cannot be overcome. Case in point : Larry Foote.

Foote's Injury was this year biggest problem. Yes, I know. Foote basically sucks... But we didn't have nobody behind him ( Vince Williams failed ) and we didn't have any Plan B. Polamalu as ILB ( which is what he is currently playing now) is constantly exposed. It is amazing how LeBeau and Tomlin were not able to come up with anything else ( like playing Jarvis Jones as ILB or switching to a 4-3 or just anything).

I will keep saying it until I can: You need good coaches and be able to draft properly. This coming draft will be loaded with QBs. LOADED. And so will be the next ones. College has a lot more throwers than it used to be. Do not expect any future 10 year QB search. It just won't happen. The

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Re: Stillers-Dolphs Postgame Analysis and Grades

Postby Matthew1516 » Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:30 pm

I could not disagree more. The offense has not really failed us in recent weeks. Look at Ben's stats. And this is considering that we have not had a professional grade offensive line for 8 years, and the running game has not been anything to write home about. We will probably not have a single game this year with a 100 yard rusher. At some point, it comes down to coaching. Tomlin is certainly not an offensive guru.

Then what is he? A defensive specialist? He spent one year as a coordinator before getting this gig. Look at how bad our defensive backs are -- his supposed specialty. Clark is awful in coverage. The problem is that too much money has been spent on guys like Woodley -- totally replaceable and unproductive. For the past 3-4 years, decent teams have been able to march on this defense. We get few sacks and force few turnovers.

I appreciate that keeping a nucleus is not how the NFL works anymore. But you don't see guys like Brady, Brees, Rivers, Romo or Eli Manning going anywhere anytime soon. When you have a good quarterback that is the face of your franchise, you build around him. QB is the one position that is not interchangeable. I would rather see Polamalu go (and would celebrate if Woodley left), than let Big Ben walk. As for Tomlin, he was an affirmative action hire. The Rooneys are paying for their politics and posturing, and so too are the Steelers. We would need two more losing seasons in a row for them to get the balls to fire Tomlin, and I don't want two more losing seasons. To be clear, Tomlin did not lead us to two Super Bowl appearances. Tomlin was adjacent to two veteran-led teams who made it to the Super Bowl.

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Re: Stillers-Dolphs Postgame Analysis and Grades

Postby Ohio » Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:41 pm

Matthew1516 wrote:I could not disagree more. The offense has not really failed us in recent weeks.


Offense failed at the start of the season. You know, the part where we went 0 - 4.

Matthew1516 wrote: We will probably not have a single game this year with a 100 yard rusher.


First time since 1969. This is why I said since draft day that it was USELESS to draft a RB in the second Round.

Matthew1516 wrote: Tomlin is certainly not an offensive guru.

Then what is he? A defensive specialist? He spent one year as a coordinator before getting this gig. Look at how bad our defensive backs are -- his supposed specialty. Clark is awful in coverage. The problem is that too much money has been spent on guys like Woodley -- totally replaceable and unproductive. For the past 3-4 years, decent teams have been able to march on this defense. We get few sacks and force few turnovers.


Tomlin is a bigger problem than you think. Not only he doesn't know clock managment. Defense Sucks. And no decent Offensive Coordinator will work under him. Nowadays if you are half decent OC you want to be HC. For sure you will not try to get a job with somebody that is useless

Matthew1516 wrote:I appreciate that keeping a nucleus is not how the NFL works anymore. But you don't see guys like Brady, Brees, Rivers, Romo or Eli Manning going anywhere anytime soon. When you have a good quarterback that is the face of your franchise, you build around him. QB is the one position that is not interchangeable. I would rather see Polamalu go (and would celebrate if Woodley left), than let Big Ben walk. As for Tomlin, he was an affirmative action hire. The Rooneys are paying for their politics and posturing, and so too are the Steelers. We would need two more losing seasons in a row for them to get the balls to fire Tomlin, and I don't want two more losing seasons. To be clear, Tomlin did not lead us to two Super Bowl appearances. Tomlin was adjacent to two veteran-led teams who made it to the Super Bowl.


1) Agree that you do not keep the nucleus anymore. This is way LeBeau has to go. You have to play rookies. You have to play "sophmores". You cannot keep people on the bench and let them play in their last year. See Keenan Lewis and Worlids for that matter. You have to be quick. And he is not. Hell it took him 4 years to figure out that Worlids was a better LOLB than Woodley...

2) Brees went somewhere... From San Diego to New Orleans. Hell, Peyton Manning went from Indy to Denver. It is strange maybe to say it now that he is hot... But Ben is done with us. Do not expect us to get anywhere with him. I bet anything you want. He is just like a RGIII... Maybe somebody that looks good enough... But once you really study him you see than maybe, just maybe, he is not what he looks.

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Re: Stillers-Dolphs Postgame Analysis and Grades

Postby isfry » Tue Dec 10, 2013 3:42 pm

I can't agree on getting rid of Ben. First of all, Brees didn't leave SD at age 32, ten years into his career. The best chance we have of winning a Lombardi in the next five years is #7. Period. Fire Haley, retire Lebeau, accept the fact that we are probably stuck with Tomlin for at least a couple more years, and go all in for a ring in the twilight of Ben's career. The salary cap stuff can be offset by renegotiating Ben's deal in the coming off season, as I expect them to do, if they have half a brain. Just my opinions.

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Re: Stillers-Dolphs Postgame Analysis and Grades

Postby Matthew1516 » Tue Dec 10, 2013 3:43 pm

The last paragraph of Ohio's response defies reason. Absolutely nuts. This team went to one Super Bowl in 26 years before Big Ben arrived. In 9 seasons, he took us to 3 Super Bowls and 4 AFCGs, winning two rings and rewriting our passing records. All of this with one of the worst offensive lines, no great running backs in their prime, and an overachieving Hines Ward as his marquee receiver. And he plays in one of the worst stadiums for passers in the league. Very few QBs could have done what he has done here. And while his running ability has declined, he is a smarter QB and makes better reads and decisions than ever before.

Brees didn't leave San Diego because of money or salary cap -- he left because they thought he was too small and that Rivers would be best. Manning left Indy because of his neck injury. They would have paid him the money if they had confidence that he could last another season and they didn't have the first pick at a generational talent like Luck. Big Ben is not injured, he's not passed his prime, and there is not a better player at his position that we will be in position to draft anytime soon.

I particularly don't want Tomlin picking a replacement for Ben. It would be an unmitigated disaster. Tomlin has a penchant for racial preferences and is not a good evaluator of talent. The dumbest thing we could possibly do is to build from scratch rather than building around this QB. Unless you want to spend another 26 years for another title.

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Re: Stillers-Dolphs Postgame Analysis and Grades

Postby Ohio » Tue Dec 10, 2013 6:37 pm

isfry wrote: The best chance we have of winning a Lombardi in the next five years is #7. Period. Fire Haley, retire Lebeau, accept the fact that we are probably stuck with Tomlin for at least a couple more years, and go all in for a ring in the twilight of Ben's career. The salary cap stuff can be offset by renegotiating Ben's deal in the coming off season, as I expect them to do, if they have half a brain. Just my opinions.


Nope. Sorry. Best chance we have is a new offensive minded HC. It will be hard to even just see the playoffs with Ben. Just do not forget that he played the entire season this year and we didn't make the playoffs...

Matthew1515 wrote:[b]This team went to one Super Bowl in 26 years before Big Ben arrived. In 9 seasons, he took us to 3 Super Bowls and 4 AFCGs, winning two rings and rewriting our passing records. All of this with one of the worst offensive lines, no great running backs in their prime, and an overachieving Hines Ward as his marquee receiver. And he plays in one of the worst stadiums for passers in the league. Very few QBs could have done what he has done here. And while his running ability has declined, he is a smarter QB and makes better reads and decisions than ever before.
...
I particularly don't want Tomlin picking a replacement for Ben. It would be an unmitigated disaster. Tomlin has a penchant for racial preferences and is not a good evaluator of talent. The dumbest thing we could possibly do is to build from scratch rather than building around this QB. Unless you want to spend another 26 years for another title.


Matthew this is an entire new league. The games has changed more in the past 4 years than in the previous 40. It is like a new sport. Ben never carried the team. Maybe it was the other way around. Now that he should carry he is not able to. Second season without playoffs. That tells me enough. Ben is now a good QB. Not even close to Elite ( Payton, Brady, Brees and Rodgers). NOT EVEN CLOSE. Ben needs all pieces around him to function in order to be succesfull. Elite QB turn no-name players into Unstoppable forces. I am thankful for all the work that Ben has done. But this offseason is time to move on.

I agree that Tomlin shouldn't be the one picking. I hope that we fire him as soon as possible. Otherwise we will watch other seasons like last 2

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Re: Stillers-Dolphs Postgame Analysis and Grades

Postby isfry » Tue Dec 10, 2013 7:02 pm

We'll see. We'll see...

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